LimeRFE Update

LIMERFE UPDATE: Last night on 30m (10.1387 MHz) I ran WSPR on the LimeRFE at 1W PEP using the LimeSDR and SDRAngel…In total, I collected 300 WSPR spots over a span of three hours which I considered wonderful over-the-air performance for the attached HF setup - the RFE did GREAT QRP in the HAM mode (0 - 30 MHz). If you’re interested in seeing the spots from the RFE itself, visit the following link and specify KN0CK and 8/11/19 as the parameter you want to narrow down to on this Sunday (and Monday), again, 8/11/19 and 8/12/19 because of UTC).

Here’s the link ----> http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/spots

The LimeRFE…what an amazing gain block this is…!!

73 de Marty, KN0CK

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Hi Marty…
Happy New Year!
Anything new with your testing & analysis on this?
/ Gerry

@gerryk - Gerry,

At the moment there’s been a pause in the action because of the apps that will support the RFE and the Lime aren’t quite mature yet to really try this out. I’m not entirely certain if SDRConsole supports all the functionality of the RFE yet - and especially for HF - and I’m pretty sure that SDRAngel does not support it without adding code resources for it to switch it in. Same goes for LinHPSDR, too. But I’m confident that something will break on this and one of those mentioned will mature and have resources for both the Lime USB (or Mini) with the RFE…It’s just a matter of time. My experiments were using SDRAngel in a (almost) manual fashion to make the RFE operate with the Lime. I haven’t given up the possibility that I may have to take matters into my own hands, too…Stay tuned…

73 de Marty, KN0CK

Hi Marty …
I see there has been a little progress here recently - Simon has been busy at any rate.
Kind of hopeful that this will be a reality soon.
/ Gerry

Gerry,

Sorry for the enormous delay in getting back with you - I haven’t been checking this forum as much as I used to mostly because I’ve been busy with life in general - Iowa had a ‘derecho’ wind storm on August 11th and that cause hurricane force winds to strip the land of trees, crops, etc. Between my Son’s house and the land here and the trees that came across the lane from the property next door it has been challenging to get things cleaned up on the land - it took nearly three weeks of constant work to clear the trees that came down on my Son’s little patch of land…About as many weeks for here, too…

Pertaining to the LimeRFE I did a lot of up-front work on testing it with the LimeSDR when I first got it for Beta testing and applied it to a WSPR setup I had running for the LimeSDR USB version. I worked admirably and I fashioned a VOX T/R switch from the WSPR app to key the LimeSDR using SDRAngel. These days all that can be accomplished using SDRConsole and I really should try it out. Fall has seemed to turn to Winter here in Iowa with all this latest snowfall we’ve been having in mid-October (unusual) so that will drive projects here in the house again including with the LimeRFE. If I’m not mistaken didn’t you buy a LimeRFE from CrowdSupply? Please keep me advised on that and your first impressions. The LimeRFE I received was HF Only and not the full-boat version for VHF/UHF/SHF, but HF has always been my focus - Simon got the full-boat version for his use and I’m sure optimized for all the bands.

Stay in touch, Gerry and sorry for the incredibly long delay in getting back with you -

73 de Marty, KN0CK

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Hi Marty…
Kind of considering pulling the trigger on this… any good reasons not to?
Any other further analysis you have done?
/ Gerry

Gerry,

Good to hear from you…! It’s been awhile…Hope you’re doing well on the other side of the pond. I have a couple of comments pertaining to the LimeRFE and will give you some perspective…Keep reading…

The LimeRFE by itself working with the LimeSDR is a really well made product. It delivers on its promise of being an amp for HF, VHF, UHF and some SHF. The LimeRFE that was given to me to use as a beta really worked well for HF, albeit at about 1W to 2W tops. Mine was only made functional for HF and the V/UHF was not populated (I got a very early beta model a little more than a year ago), but I have heard reports that the LimeRFE works well up to 3 GHz, but even then you’ll only get 100mW to 500mW of power output - you have to get more gain out of the antenna you build which should get you ERPs of 1W or more depending on the gain of the antenna (unity gain antennas over isotropic will only get you 100mW to 500mW ERP). But anything below the SHF frequencies you’re guaranteed 1W at the minimum. Given all that, the station will be QRP, but I used my LimeRFE to do WSPR and was heard all over the continental US but also heard in the UK, Iceland, and parts of Spain when running the LimeSDR on SDRAngel for mod/demod support for the Lime and WSPR to mod/demod for that mode and also faking the keying to a USB comport style relay to switch the RF path between receive and transmit. It worked pretty well for what it was and you can certainly now use the Lime with SDRConsole and it has all the Lime support built right into it, too, for voice and CW. So it has its uses and it makes the Lime a useful radio for those operations. I’ve also heard of Hams using theirs on VHF 2m for voice and some 440 MHz work, too - mine did not support that being built early for HF.

On the other side, is longer term support. Right now, SDRConsole is the only real application that supports the LimeSDR and the LimeRFE together - I haven’t seen if Edouard or the other developers are doing this for SDRAngel or not. If Simon (down the road) abandons 'Console for something else then everyone is going to be tethered to the final version of Console that supported the Lime/LimeRFE and that’s it. Everyone will have to ask Simon NOT to put a ‘parking meter’ on the software because when it expires you’re dead in the water with a Lime/LimeRFE and no where to get support. About 8 months ago I sent Andrew Back a letter telling Andrew that Lime Microsystems really needed to make the next generation of the LimeSDR and make it a useful radio with the RF power built right onto the board to support 1W end to end (there are Minicircuits amplifiers that do that) and put the onus of the filtering on the User to make for HF/VHF/UHF/SHF. I also told Andrew that the communication transport layer to talk to this new Lime should be more mainstream and support the protocols that are out there for the least amount of screwing around to use it for GNURadio, and all the mainstream apps (HDSDR, SDRConsole, SDR#, etc). …I never received an answer or even a letter back telling me to go to Hell. Nothing…So it may be time to poke Andrew again. Not sure what’s happening at Lime Microsystems these days but the crew that I knew then is still on the payroll over there (Andrew, Zydrunas, etc). They’re still selling the LimeSDR and Lime Mini from what it looks like, but both are getting, as they say in the UK, ‘long in the tooth’.,It really is time for them to introduce a new radio with better capability…Until that happens, you can rest comfortably that Lime and LimeSDR are still being supported even though they are 6 year old designs and really, by consumer standards, in dire need of updating.

So that’s my analysis on it, Gerry. I continue to keep my thumb on the pulse of all this, but the whole SDR market has exploded with a variety of hardware out there from Elad to SDRPlay to Icom (705 like I own) and other major players, even with China in the mix with their sub-par offerings and incredibly bad support and the Russian Tulip and McHF knock-offs that keep surfacing. Lime is still a viable radio if you keep it in the paradigm it’s in now and can get long term support from Console…But the day will come when Lime is just another bygone SDR and something else replaces it. I’m trying hard to have Lime Microsystems reinvent the Lime…Time will tell…

73 Gerry - keep in touch,

de Marty, KN0CK

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Yeah, with a Hermes Lite 2 being at $300 ish for HF at 5 watts kinda casts a shadow on the Lime for me. At this point, I would think Lime could do a non filtered 1W-5W through 5GHz for about $500 or so. Not an experimenter’s board, a real radio.

Ed

Hi @martywittrock
Thanks for taking the time to write such an in-depth analysis. TBH, I find it very encouraging. I am not at all put pff by the low power output… I already have small amplifiers for 2m and 70cm that will take a 1W signal and boost it to 25W. Additionally, I am planning on building an LDMOS amplifier for 1.6MHz - 70MHz that will give >400W on all bands for a ~1W input (max 28dB).
Design here: https://qrpblog.com/2019/10/a-600w-broadband-hf-amplifier-using-affordable-ldmos-devices/
I am not sure what I will do at SHF, but there are good options from Kuhne and others, albeit expensive.
I am wondering have you done any analysis of the recieve capabilities?

@AA7QQ I do have a Hermes Lite 2, which is a fantastic little radio & I run it through a Hardrock 50 when it needs a little more chooch. I don’t feel that this would negate the value of a good HF front-end for the Line though.

73
Gerry

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My incoming HL2 will be at 5W/100W/1200W levels. All surplus amplifier boards. I will also hang a 6M & 2M transverter off of it, that will each be loafing at 1500W if needed (Larcan TV broadcast amps).
Having the ability to do Pure Signal is a huge plus. I might even try running Pure Signal with downconverters in the return.

Ed