Good afternoon… We have, over the last 6 months, developed a working prototype for a product that uses the LMS6002. We are at a place in our development cycle where we’re making a decision about the next prototype spin… Neither my team, nor my production house, can find a reliable source for the LMS6002. I just verified with Digikey that they have discontinued carrying the LMS6002. I have REPEATEDLY attempted to contact Lime directly about their product roadmap. The don’t answer emails… At all… (I did get one pretty terse response about an unrelated question regarding example HDL firmware… We’ve since developed our own… All emails since have been disregarded. ) We have an alternative design that is 95% complete. The alternative design is based on the Analog Devices AD9361. Before I start the layout on the alternative design, I just want to ask one more time, if there is any way we can get actual status on LMS6002 production. For those of us using Lime parts in production projects, a roadmap (even if an NDA is necessary) might not be a horrible idea.
@aikijw - JW,
I don’t work for Lime Microsystems, but I do work in communications and wonder why you’re designing with a chip that was introduced into the market on March 6th of 2009…just over ten years ago. It’s obvious that the LMS7002 is the replacement for the '6002 and is in plentiful numbers in Digikey’s system (173 LMS7002 in US stock) and is widely used on the LimeSDR and is likely to be carried for awhile given the huge response from the market using the LimeSDR and LimeMini that both utilize that '7002 part. Instead of designing an alternative around AD, it would have been beneficial to design around the LMS7002 because a lot of the IP you used to develop the '6002 solution could have been readily ported to the '7002 with some modest tweaks. Going to a entirely different vendor changes all your NRE - it’s a re-do…not cheap.
AliExpress has stock on the LMS6002 as does Azio - here are the links:
http://www.azio-tw.com/azio_web/?page_id=2426
Good luck with your design…
Marty,
OK. The question I asked was, in summary, “is the LMS6002 being discontinued?”… While I appreciate your input, I disagree with your advice… I realize your questions are rhetorical, but I find armchair rhetoric to be more prevalent than it should be, these days… So… I’ll answer your questions as sincerely as I can… Perhaps we both learn something from the experience.
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Shifting from the '6002 to the '7002… They aren’t pin/package compatible. The power supply design changes significantly. I lose 6 dB of transmit power (which changes my output stage design significantly) Contrary to your implication, the baseband “PHY” is also much different. There are also MANY other differences… Speaking as someone that has designed hardware/firmware using both the '6002 and '9361 (3 designs to date), my opinion of the NRE required between the two approaches differs. The 9361 is easier, IMHO, than the '7002. Fewer DC power rails… Better documentation… Pin locations make a little more sense to me… HDL already exists, both self authored, and from ADI. Oh… And as a bonus, the '9361 also tunes up to 6 GHz, which makes single stage up/down converters to X/Ku band comparatively easy to design/develop… The '9361 is a little more costly, but if I can’t get parts, it doesn’t matter…
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We rolled our original design with the '6002 because both transmit and receive DC power requirements are lower than the '7002 (by close to 3 dB). RF performance (not to mention complexity) is somewhat better than the AD9361, in ways that are important to us. My application is VERY DC power sensitive, physically small, and has some fairly demanding RF requirements. If I can’t get the '6002, I can’t get Lime to answer email, and IMHO the effect of transitioning to the AD9361 is, considering nothing but the most basic effects, no worse than the transition to the 7002. As well, given three decades of personal experience with ADI, there seems to be significantly reduced risk associated with the AD9361 suddenly becoming unavailable with zero notice. ADI also answers emails. The AD9364 (the '61’s single channel cousin has pretty good DC power numbers… So does the '61 when it’s twiddled right. (BTW… 173 parts in stock doesn’t instill confidence in me… Our first LRIP is going to be significantly more than 173 units… If I can’t find the part in production quantities, then “173” is effectively the same as “0” for me. Of course you undoubtedly considered the cost increase if I have to stutter production because of long-lead supply problems, right?
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If I can’t find roadmap info, or obsolescence schedules, for the LMS6002, what leads me to believe that transitioning my design to the LMS7002 is going to fare any better from a long lead parts availability standpoint? I’m building production hardware that has a defined lifecycle… When a vendor isn’t transparent with either their lifecycle/obsolescence plans, or their production roadmap, it becomes MUCH more difficult to use their part. Unfortunately, it’s my fault for not digging a little deeper on Lime before campaigning to use the '6002. This is solely on me. This is, in fact, where I believe I did made a mistake.
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AliExpress? I’m a little hesitant to point this out, but ordering from AliExpress is not really an option (any more than ordering cables from “Amy” at “RF Bat” on eBay). This is not a hobby application. I have parts sourcing requirements that have to be met. This is pretty standard stuff…
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The argument that using the LMS6002 is a bad idea because of its “age” is specious. I still use '741s, and MAX232s… The design for both devices is well over 10 years old. I’ve been using the '9371 for almost 8 years. Production is still going strong. In the end, it doesn’t matter if YOU think the part is obsolete. I need to know if Lime thinks the part is obsolete. Either they plan to produce more 6002s, or they do not… If the '7002 is an “obvious replacement” (I think I’ve established that it really isn’t), then why hasn’t Lime, the authority on the subject, said as much, and discontinued the part? If you’ve rolled one or more designs with the LMS6002 and LMS7002, and you have an “earned” view, then we can discuss it, otherwise, your observations are, respectfully, not terribly useful to me.
My original question was “Is the LMS6002 considered obsolete?”. The question was directed at Lime Microsystems. It’s clearly my fault for not stating, up front, that I was looking for an answer from Lime. I was directed, by Lime, to ask support questions here in the forum. Having someone explain that one part is a “replacement” for another when it clearly is not, indicates that one of us doesn’t have a solid handle on MY application space. If the '6002’s lifecycle status isn’t available, and has been discontinued without notice, WHY would using the '7002, for a production project, make ANY sense at all. While I do appreciate your opinions about how I should, applying hindsight, have proceeded with my design from the start, I’m reasonably sure, having re-read my post, that one of the things I didn’t request was random design assistance. I’m trying to make some roadmap decisions, and I thought I’d ask Lime one more time about whether I could get info on their product roadmap…
If someone that works for Lime would like to weigh in, I’d really appreciate it…
Best Regards…
@Marty @aikijw – Thank you both, for inputs and comments shared.
There are no plans on EoL for FPRF devices. See web site for details on roadmap:
@aikijw Can you send an email to sales@limemicro.com – this is where Lime’s sales team is tracking purchase enquiries.
Milo,
Thanks for the reply. I have emailed both “support” and “sales” repeatedly over the last 8-10 months. I have gotten a single response about 8 months ago. The single, rather terse, response, from someone that seemed to be a “marketing VP” didn’t answer my question, and directed me to this forum. Subsequent attempts, from my end, appear to be ignored. I’ll try sales again.
Thanks!